The Birth & Baby Podcast

BONUS GUEST INTERVIEW: Taking a Holistic Approach to Pelvic Floor Health Services with Pelvic Floor Therapist Michelle Walz, PT, MPT

• Lindsee McDonald & Doula Deb • Season 1

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In the upcoming Birth and Baby podcast episode, Doula Deb discusses pelvic floor health and mindfulness with physical therapist and yoga instructor, Michelle Walz.
Michelle breaks down what the pelvic floor really is—a group of muscles that support our pelvic organs and play a crucial role in continence. But here’s the kicker: these muscles are deeply connected to our nervous system, meaning that stress, trauma, and daily tension can take a toll in ways you might not expect. Together, they bust the myth that pelvic floor health is all about doing endless Kegels!
Michelle emphasizes a holistic approach that combines pelvic floor therapy, mindfulness, breathing, and yoga to help maintain a healthy pelvic floor and empower listeners.

Resources: 

Thanks for tuning in! 🎧✨ Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a moment of the Birth and Baby podcast! Have a question or topic you’d like us to cover? Click here to send us a message or email us at birthandbabypodcast@gmail.com. Until next time, be gentle with yourself and remember—you're doing an amazing job! 🌟

Deb Jimenez @ Doula Deb LLC: www.DoulaDeb.com, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter.

Lindsee McDonald @ Wildflower Birth Services: www.WildflowerBirthService.com, Instagram, Tiktok.

Disclaimer: The content of this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always consult your physician for any medical questions. The views expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts. Reliance on any information provided is at your own risk.

Doula Deb (00:56.888)

Hi everybody. This is Doula Deb I have a special guest.


Michelle (01:04.364)

Nice. Awesome. Awesome.


Michelle (01:11.618)

Okay, yeah.


Doula Deb (01:18.916)

today, Michelle. I met Michelle at Madrona Physical Therapy where I have my office and we were talking about the public floor and mindfulness and yoga and I thought it would be really great episode to talk about all of that stuff and just kind of see what comes of it. So welcome to the show. Yeah.


Michelle (01:41.817)

Thank you. Yeah. Thanks.


Doula Deb (01:44.91)

Why don't you tell us about yourself and how you came to do what you do and why you're passionate about


Michelle (01:52.176)

Okay, well, hi, I'm Michelle Walz. I'm a physical therapist and also a yoga instructor. And I've been a physical therapist for about 23 years and embarked on a journey with yoga, mainly because I work a lot with chronic pain patients and have a special interest in that, mainly because of my own body experience and really work a lot with that population. And then started


actually prompted by a few former coworkers saying, know, I think you'd be really good at pelvic health. and so I started researching a bit more and then really became interested in it. love working with this population with pregnant women, newly postpartum women, middle aged women, all of who I can relate to. Right. And, I love to infuse a lot of.


Doula Deb (02:31.322)

Okay.


Doula Deb (02:44.047)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (02:47.372)

Absolutely.


Michelle (02:52.483)

yoga and mindfulness practices into treatment sessions because there is such a strong link between the health of our pelvic floor and the state of our nervous system.


Doula Deb (03:04.206)

that's amazing. Yeah. And I found that to be very true with working with birthing people and postpartum people. it's just it is so connected to stress and like how tight that is. So for people who don't know what pelvic floor is and like pelvic floor therapist is and that's like a brand new term to them. Can you explain what that is?


Michelle (03:05.486)

Yeah.


Michelle (03:16.549)

Yes.


Michelle (03:26.616)

Yeah. Yeah. So, so as physical therapists, we kind of undergo additional training to work in the world of pelvic health. And that's a series of classes and trainings, really looking at the, the nervous system and its link to the pelvic floor muscles. And also the function of the pelvic floor muscles, the bowel, the bladder.


Doula Deb (03:49.562)

Mm


Michelle (03:54.904)

And then also.


the changes our body goes through during pregnancy and the changes that our body goes through postpartum. So we kind of take a deep dive into all of those topics to educate ourselves. So when people come through our door, we can help them out. Yeah.


Doula Deb (04:03.162)

Absolutely.


Doula Deb (04:16.526)

Yeah, so the public floor essentially is what holds what, right?


Michelle (04:21.57)

yeah. Well, yeah, the pelvic floor is, you know, it's, it's basically when we're working with the pelvic floor, we're looking at everything, not just the pelvic floor muscles. We're looking at all of the muscles that surround the pelvis, the lower back, the hips, your core, your breath. And then the pelvic floor muscles, which help really to help us remain continent.


Doula Deb (04:41.626)

Yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (04:50.362)

Okay, yeah.


Michelle (04:50.48)

and not pee and poop ourselves when we're walking around. Right? And also really help supporting our pelvic organs. Yeah, so it's more than just one muscle. It's a group of muscles. And then again, it's our nervous system that helps kind of drive everything and keep things functioning well.


Doula Deb (04:53.57)

Yes, that's important. Yeah.


Doula Deb (05:18.136)

Okay, so how does that mindfulness come in with the nervous system and all of that connection? I'm really interested in that.


Michelle (05:23.759)

Yeah!


Michelle (05:28.081)

Yeah. So I would say, whether it's a woman who's pregnant or a new mom, or no matter what age you are, I'd say the majority of people who come through our door sort of expect when you're going to go to pelvic therapy, that you're going to do a bunch of kegels. And right. And that's the assumption. And I would say more times than not, a very high percentage of women are


Doula Deb (05:47.31)

Yeah. yeah, that's what you always hear. Yep.


Michelle (05:57.021)

The step is to help the muscles learn how to relax because they're too tight. That's why it's really important to see a pelvic health physical therapist rather than just assume and follow a YouTube video on how to do Kegels properly because you could be making your symptoms worse by just tightening the muscles more and more and more.


Doula Deb (06:04.792)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (06:15.086)

Right.


Sure. Well, and like a perfect example is that like, know, a postpartum mom is leaking pee or urine while they're coughing, getting up, you know, this and that. And the advice is, well, if I'm leaking, I'm not tight enough. So let's do some kegals And what does that do? me. Because I know. Because I've been there.


Michelle (06:36.24)

Yeah. Yeah.


Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So let's, imagine a muscle that's tense all the time. And then if your pelvic floor is holding really tight and then you cough or sneeze that increases the pressure down into your abdominal cavity and the pelvic floor. And if the muscle's already super tight, it just doesn't have anything else left to give. Right? Nothing to give. So.


Doula Deb (07:04.782)

That thing to give. Yep. Yep. Yep.


Michelle (07:08.236)

And it can be really where the mindfulness ties in is our pelvic floor is very responsive to the state of our nervous system as a whole. And so if you're carrying a lot of tension in your body, whether it's just current life stressors or previous stressors or trauma, those muscles are on high alert and usually for good reason, right? They're trying to protect us. Yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (07:16.538)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.


Doula Deb (07:29.902)

Yeah, sure. I mean, it's protective. Yes, absolutely.


Michelle (07:36.594)

So I work really collaboratively with mental health professionals as well, because it's really important to be releasing, you know, trauma and other reasons why you might be very tense. cause it can be kind of scary for some people to connect with that area of their body. They've checked out from that area for good reason. Right. Yeah.


Doula Deb (07:41.05)

amazing.


Doula Deb (07:57.358)

right, right, for various things. mean, even just, you know, trauma of their first time or trauma of like pelvic or, excuse me, cervical checks, those can feel really uncomfortable or if there's any kind of sexual trauma or just like constant peeing themselves after having their baby. I mean, it's so embarrassing to even admit that that's happening.


Michelle (08:04.231)

Yes.


Michelle (08:08.989)

Yes.


Michelle (08:12.241)

Yeah. Yeah.


Michelle (08:17.724)

Yes, yeah, it is. I know, yeah, yeah.


Doula Deb (08:24.366)

So if someone is experiencing that, they would come see a pelvic floor therapist and what would that look like for you? Like you get like a background and like, know, what is that? Step us through that.


Michelle (08:33.81)

Yeah!


Michelle (08:38.353)

Yeah, so it's a pretty.


pretty intense as far as history taking, finding out all your, like, how many babies have you had? they vaginal deliveries or cesarean births? And were there any traumas associated with that, any tearing? And we want to know what is the rest of your medical history because we're more than just a pelvis walking around, you know? Right? For some people, maybe they sprained their ankle really badly and they haven't properly rehabbed their ankle.


Doula Deb (09:04.141)

Yeah, yeah, it's all connected, right?


Michelle (09:13.269)

So their pelvic floor is trying to make, pick up the slack and, and, and yeah. Right. Or you have chronics. Yes. Yes. Yeah.


Doula Deb (09:16.866)

So everything is adjusting to compensate, right? And again, it's like that protective quality of our bodies to just keep going. But eventually those compensations are just, turn into chronic pain. I mean, yeah.


Michelle (09:30.995)

Right? Yeah. I always tell people those compensations work until they don't. Right? Yeah. So yeah, so we have a thorough background and then what the exam looks like, it's sort of a few different components. The first would be as physical therapists, we're movement experts, right? So we're going to watch you move and kind of look at the big picture. We're going to look at your lower back range of motion, the range of motion of your hips.


Doula Deb (09:36.568)

Right? Yes, yes.


Michelle (10:00.33)

the strength of your hips, your core strategy. We're gonna be watching you breathe and looking at your breath. We're gonna look at the alignment of your pelvis, the alignment of your rib cage, right? So all of these things are being kind of more of the big picture of things that might impair your pelvic function, right? Yeah, so if muscles are tight around your hips or weak around your hips, the pelvic floor muscles won't be as efficient. Yeah.


Doula Deb (10:18.458)

Okay. Yeah, that's great.


Doula Deb (10:27.3)

Yeah, yeah, and I can assume too, if you're breathing, and I don't want to say incorrectly, but like I've learned in the last year that there is a way to breathe correctly and I do not do that. And so that's been a challenge for me in the last year is learning how to expand my rib cage and like use my abdominals to like breathe down and breathe up. And it has helped my lower back.


Michelle (10:41.78)

Hmm


Michelle (10:48.732)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (10:56.512)

so much which has never been a focus for my back pain. Like it is just so crazy how that can all connect so closely because we like to go to these you know specialists for I have back pain or I have arthritis or you know this and that and it's not very often that you get someone looking at your whole mechanics and I think it's so important to see it as a system.


Michelle (10:57.077)

you


Michelle (11:00.978)

Yeah.


Michelle (11:07.509)

Yeah.


Mm -hmm.


Michelle (11:19.453)

Yeah. Yeah.


Michelle (11:24.202)

Yes. And you as a whole person, you're more than just a set of muscles and bones walking around, right? We have emotions and stressors and other things that affect our wellbeing. yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (11:29.827)

Right.


Yes, yes. And our awareness, right? So like, I mean, that kind of circles back to the mindfulness of just being aware of your pelvic floor. If you are having a lot of tension, understanding that you can bring awareness to that and start relaxing it on purpose. And that actually, because I was having trouble with incontinence after both my kids.


Michelle (11:55.2)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (12:01.87)

And that was the thing that we focused on with my pelvic floor therapist was you just consciously have to, are you squeezing right now? You know? And it was scary to me because I was like, if I don't squeeze, I'm gonna pee all the time. This is crazy. And so I said, I'm just gonna trust the process. And lo and behold, it worked. Like it is so crazy. Now when I have, I still have some issues.


Michelle (12:10.055)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.


Michelle (12:17.46)

Right? Yeah.


Michelle (12:25.12)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (12:29.614)

Like when I'm sick and I'm coughing, like every once in a while I'm like, okay, this is a lot. But, but it's crazy how all of that ties together, you know? So what are some exercises or like practices that you would maybe suggest to someone just to be more mindful?


Michelle (12:35.689)

Yeah, yeah.


Michelle (12:41.973)

Yeah, absolutely.


Michelle (12:52.928)

Yeah. So the first thing, and I think this is where a yoga practice comes in, that, and mindfulness as well, it's that curiosity, just being curious about what you feel without trying to change it necessarily at first, because a lot of people, like I said, have really not paid much attention to that area. And so just that mindful awareness.


Doula Deb (13:05.508)

Mm


Doula Deb (13:13.188)

Yeah.


Michelle (13:17.75)

And then as far as an exercise goes, I find a lot of yoga postures are very beneficial, especially supported yoga postures using blocks or bolsters, different things to support your body and open up your hips and then intentionally bringing awareness to that area to soften the pelvic floor. what, you know, some of them, you know, one basic exercise doesn't.


Doula Deb (13:26.714)

Bye.


Yeah.


Doula Deb (13:34.478)

Boom.


Doula Deb (13:40.334)

Mm -hmm.


Michelle (13:46.22)

to be anything special, just kind of sitting still and noticing and bringing awareness to that area. And you might feel when you're sitting in a chair, do you feel like your pelvic floor muscles are lifted up and away from the chair? Right? And taking a few breaths, what would it feel like to soften and allow those muscles to relax down towards the surface you're sitting on? And


Doula Deb (13:51.064)

Yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (14:01.028)

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.


Michelle (14:13.505)

Sometimes it takes contracting the muscles a little bit first to feel, that's what it feels like when it's tense, right? What does it feel like to release that tension? And let me tell you, I've worked at this myself too. I had chronic SI pain in my sacroiliac joint and was holding my pelvic floor tight all the time. And it was a process. It didn't happen in one day. It took a lot of intention.


Doula Deb (14:18.638)

Yeah. To be, yep, yep.


Doula Deb (14:29.434)

Yeah.


yeah.


Michelle (14:41.909)

a lot of awareness and practice and patience. Yeah. And I love this with new moms. tell them, treat yourself the way you would your toddler. Right? We don't expect like, yes, yes, this is new to you. We don't expect our toddlers to figure something new out right away. yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (14:45.646)

Yep. No.


Doula Deb (14:52.718)

Yes. Is that your learning? Yeah. Yes. Yes.


Yep. Yep. It's like potty training, right? It's like they have to bring awareness to peeing in the toilet and like understanding when to let go. And you see it, it takes time. takes sometimes a month or more and they still have accidents and excuse me. so yeah, taking the time to put into that. And it sounds like it doesn't really take much to just practice throughout the day. You know, even if you did it a couple of times a day.


Michelle (15:13.248)

Yeah. Wait.


Michelle (15:27.488)

Yeah, yeah, no.


Doula Deb (15:30.681)

like.


Michelle (15:32.023)

Yes, and I'm a very big believer in making things super easy to integrate into your life because let's just face it, moms are busy, super, super busy. So I try to do things that you can just easily integrate into when you're sitting on the couch or maybe when you're on the floor interacting. When babies are doing tummy time is an awesome time for you to do some of your things, right?


Doula Deb (15:41.06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Doula Deb (15:57.037)

yeah!


Perfect. That's a perfect time because you're sitting there and you can just do some breathing Yeah, that's amazing You know something that I noticed with a lot of postpartum moms or even pregnant moms is as their body is changing is a pelvic tilt Forward and then they get that lower back pain. Are you noticing that as well? Or is it?


Michelle (16:01.205)

Yeah.


Right? Yeah, yeah.


Michelle (16:16.131)

Mmm.


Michelle (16:23.586)

Yeah, no, they do tend to just kind of catch, you tend to just kind of sway your back and that becomes your pattern. Right? Yeah. And so some of it can be just a habit and some of it can be adaptive shortening of the muscles that surround your pelvis. Right? It could be the pelvic floor muscles, but also the hip flexors tend to get a little bit on the tight side or even your abdominal wall.


Doula Deb (16:31.438)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (16:43.598)

Right.


Michelle (16:51.107)

tends to get a little bit on the tight side. we can, in PT sometimes we'll use some manual therapy and show you exercises ways that can help lengthen those muscles and stretch those muscles. So it's not so hard to sit or stand with your back in a more neutral position. Yeah.


Doula Deb (17:08.91)

Yeah. And I would guess that a lot of people don't even know what a neutral position is. Like, you know, that if that's how their body has been their whole life, they don't even know. Like when, when you show them, okay, you know, this is helping them move their body in a way that you see that is neutral. And they're like, gosh, that feels so strange.


Michelle (17:15.595)

Yeah.


Michelle (17:30.211)

Yes, it does. It does. And again, it takes a lot of practice and it's nice to have that's where coming to physical therapy sessions regularly is so helpful because it's an extra set of eyes that can help you find that because most of my patients come back and they're like, I don't know if I'm doing this right. Right. So to help guide you along. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (17:32.281)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (17:51.48)

Yeah, yeah, because it feels, because it's so unnatural, you know.


Michelle (17:58.559)

And we have to be careful too, that when we're finding these new ways, that it doesn't create more tension in your body. So I like to use, like when I talk about posture and things, I'm operating as a PT, but also really in a yoga mindset of thinking of a relaxed yet upright posture. So you're not over -efforting. Yeah.


Doula Deb (18:05.081)

Right.


Doula Deb (18:17.752)

Right. Yeah. You don't want to be like overdoing it. Yes. Well, and growing up, I don't know if anybody else had this experience, but I got a lot of criticism for hunching, hunching over. And so I tended to really just over exaggerate. And now I have to correct the correction of not overextending my chest area and like holding my shoulders back.


Michelle (18:30.382)

Yeah, right.


Michelle (18:37.774)

Yeah. Mm -hmm.


Michelle (18:44.11)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (18:44.31)

which causes more tension in my back. And so there's a lot of things going on there. So working with a PT sounds like it could just make a world of difference. In just even a couple sessions, it sounds like it could be really helpful.


Michelle (18:49.43)

Absolutely.


Michelle (18:55.791)

Yeah.


Michelle (19:00.367)

Yeah, when it comes to pelvic health in particular, like so I mentioned, we do kind of the big picture assessment and then we do a pelvic assessment, which can look a lot of different ways depending on people's comfort. We're very much a culture of consent and some people are scared to come because they're like, I don't want a pelvic exam and we don't need to do a pelvic exam. Some people really want that because they want more information.


Doula Deb (19:22.734)

Yeah. Yeah.


Michelle (19:28.294)

but there's so many things we can do without that.


Doula Deb (19:31.79)

Yeah, in by pelvic exam, mean entering the vagina just so that we're clear because that is what we're doing and it's.


Michelle (19:39.203)

Yes. Yes. And there are, but there are different layers. Like one part of the exam, can gain a lot of information. I can palpate some pelvic floor muscles, even through your clothing when you're laying on your side. So I can tell if the muscle is contracting. can tell if it's relaxing. So for some people they're okay with that. and then the next. Right. Yeah. And then the next level that's less scary than an internal exam also is just.


Doula Deb (19:51.45)

Great.


Doula Deb (19:55.834)

You


Absolutely. And that doesn't sound as scary, right? Like, yeah, absolutely.


Michelle (20:08.285)

being unclothed and then me watching what happens at the perineum and seeing when you contract, what do I see happen? When you relax, what do I see happen? When you cough, what do I see happen? So I can get a lot of information without an internal exam. So, you know, so an internal exam gives us information, but it's not necessary.


Doula Deb (20:27.994)

Amazing and that makes it so much Yeah Yeah, and that makes it so less intimidating. I think for people I think You know when my first pelvic floor Therapist, you know, I was like, okay. This is gonna be kind of like a Pap smear, know, but it wasn't like that at all and it was a little strange at first But then it was like god I had so much positive


Michelle (20:50.182)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (20:57.706)

experience with it and way less pain. I was just experiencing so much pain with my back and so much stuff that I was like okay I did it one time and then it wasn't scary anymore. Like yeah it was great. Yeah I highly recommend anybody having issues with incontinence, back pain, any kind of stuff that's like hip stuff like and even just being pregnant.


Michelle (21:11.182)

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.


Michelle (21:24.732)

you


Doula Deb (21:27.448)

Like that is such a change in your body and how you walk and how you move that it's worth at least one visit. I mean, what do you think? I think pregnancy is a great time to, if you haven't been before, is a great time to go.


Michelle (21:28.812)

Yeah.


Michelle (21:32.612)

It is.


Michelle (21:44.286)

Absolutely, yeah, your body's undergoing a lot of changes and it can be really helpful just to know kind of what's normal and just a few tips on how to, you know, allow your body to be a little more comfortable. And then also coming back to the mindfulness piece, there are, there's starting to be more research on integrating mindfulness training into childbirth prep.


Doula Deb (22:09.875)

absolutely. my gosh. Yes. Yep.


Michelle (22:10.085)

Because it can be scary to anticipate. What's it gonna be like? I don't know is everything okay and people sometimes people are especially if they do have a history of anxiety already it can be really a time when your nervous system is a little bit more on high alert and and we will Right. Yeah, and we have to think about what that's


Doula Deb (22:23.652)

Yep. Yep.


Doula Deb (22:28.132)

Fearful. Yeah. You don't know what to expect. Yeah. Yeah.


Michelle (22:37.04)

how that's impacting the health of baby too with all those stress hormones circulating in your body. So it's a great time.


Doula Deb (22:42.894)

Yep. Which can sometimes be like a feedback loop, right? Of like, God, I can't stress, but I'm stressed about me and stressing and huh. And then you get in this loop and you're just like, okay, how do I get out of this loop? Yeah.


Michelle (22:47.452)

Yeah.


Michelle (22:51.312)

Right?


Michelle (22:58.517)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it can be really helpful. We're working really hard. Angie, the owner of Medrona and another one of my colleagues working really hard on some birth prep from a physical therapy perspective, which is nice. And I love working with people with the mindfulness piece. And just, it can be as simple as just integrating a few breaths, intentional breaths.


Doula Deb (23:15.726)

That'll be so helpful.


Michelle (23:26.151)

into your day. doesn't need to be sitting in meditation for hours a day to see benefits, right?


Doula Deb (23:31.192)

Yeah, I can't do that with my ADD brain. I just can't, but I can do some breaths and listening to like some calming music or finding the things that help my body feel calm. and then trusting your body too. think when you go to a physical therapist, like you can get the feedback that, know, your public floor, your, has to open up so your baby can come through. And so if you're tense and stressed,


Michelle (23:34.682)

Yeah... Right?


Michelle (23:56.146)

Yeah, yes.


Doula Deb (24:01.454)

that pelvic floor is basically holding that baby in. And I know because that's what I did for my first whole birth until my baby and my body was like, no, listen, you have to let this baby out. And it was a long, long labor. And there was other factors, but I know consciously I was so stressed and fearful of the pain that I was like, I can do this, you know? And that is very much of like that.


Michelle (24:13.926)

Yes, yes.


Doula Deb (24:32.07)

tension and holding in rather than letting go and allowing your body to do what it needs to do. And so for my second, knowing what I know about how that birth went and how my body, was fighting against my body and fighting against the pain that I did yoga once a week. I went to a private instructor and I did all those mindfulness stuff.


Michelle (24:36.755)

Yes.


Doula Deb (24:58.97)

And instead of a five day labor, I had, it was like 10 hours maybe, but it really was not intense. And I remember like intentionally, mindfully, every time I had a contraction saying, let my baby come down, allow her to come, open up, you know, like allow her to come. And that was so helpful for me in changing what the pain meant.


Michelle (25:15.379)

Hmm.


Michelle (25:29.033)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (25:29.282)

and allowing my body to do what I needed to do. And it was such a difference in my perception of the labor, and the birth. And I remember when my husband called the midwife, cause I was like, I don't think we're ready. Like I've, I'm not, I'm not there yet. And he's like, your contractions are like three to four minutes apart. And, I'm like, but I'm really not that much pain. And I know that labor can go really long. He's like,


Michelle (25:38.047)

Mm -hmm.


Doula Deb (25:58.814)

I'm pulling it, I'm calling. I was like, do what you gotta do, it's fine. So she came and I was in transition. And so if I had held off, I probably would have just had my baby without help, which I basically did. She kinda helped the baby out of the tub a little. But it was just such a different perception because of the mindfulness piece that I really, every single week, every single day, intentionally worked on with my body.


Michelle (26:01.511)

Yeah


Michelle (26:06.381)

Mmm.


Michelle (26:19.999)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (26:29.332)

to have a different story for that birth.


Michelle (26:32.813)

That's beautiful.


Doula Deb (26:34.682)

Yeah, it was such a different experience and healing. And I think anybody can achieve that with a perception and that mindfulness piece and understanding the body and what your body is going through so that you're not as fearful of what's happening, you know?


Michelle (26:38.336)

Hmm.


Michelle (26:46.09)

Yes.


Michelle (26:51.06)

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.


Doula Deb (26:56.334)

Yeah, so I would say like one of the first steps is like go to PT, right?


Michelle (27:00.916)

Yeah, or I also teach private yoga sessions. Which if we want to just fully focus on that piece, that's really nice too. yeah. Yeah, and think part of the process and what you just described is really the essence of a yoga practice is that intuitive sense. And it's not that we need to learn that, we just need to remember, we've forgotten.


Doula Deb (27:05.528)

There you go.


Doula Deb (27:12.451)

Absolutely.


Doula Deb (27:26.916)

Yep. Yes. Yes. In our busy lives, right? Yeah, we don't tune into ourselves much.


Michelle (27:30.273)

really, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's remembering and opening back up to that. And, and the other thing that I love about the practice that I think is, so beneficial is we've, we're always looking outside and we forget, yes, how much, how much of that intuitive sense.


Doula Deb (27:40.676)

I really love that.


Doula Deb (27:54.02)

Yeah, for wisdom. Yeah.


Michelle (27:59.726)

really, we, I don't know, cut, cut, cut that part. want to start over. Yeah. this is me with, perimenopausal lack of sleep. my gosh. My brain, like I have something on the tip of my tongue and then it's just like, no, where'd it, where'd it go? What were we talking about? that intuitive sense. Yeah. Okay.


Doula Deb (28:02.18)

We know, we already know. Okay, okay, yeah, cut.


Doula Deb (28:14.326)

Doula Deb (28:18.5)

Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Michelle (28:25.825)

So I think what's so helpful in the practice is, again, connecting to that intuitive sense that we all have within us and remembering. I tell people all the time, I am not the expert of your body. You are the expert of your body because you're the only person that can feel it, right? Yeah.


Doula Deb (28:43.598)

Yeah, and you're teaching them to listen to that, to hear that internal wisdom. And it's so funny you say that, because that's one of my favorite things to do at postpartum with families is that they're looking to me, you're the expert, you know what you're talking about, you know this. then I'm like, I know a lot of things, but what do you know about your baby? Like, I don't know your baby. You have lived with this baby.


Michelle (28:47.837)

Yes, yes.


Michelle (29:06.305)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (29:12.384)

and you know them best. So what is your gut telling you and guiding them? And I can give you some research. I can give you scientific stuff, but really, I'm here to just confirm that like your gut is telling you something and let's listen and then we'll figure out how to integrate that in and make you feel comfortable with what your decision is with parenting. Yeah, because I do, I really, really do believe that we have such internal wisdom if we just


Michelle (29:35.507)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (29:42.156)

Slow down and listen.


Michelle (29:42.434)

Yeah, yes, it's the art of the pause, the pause. And that's what a practice in yoga or meditation or just slowing down to take one breath, it allows you to cultivate the ability to pause before we just jump into that reactivity. Yeah, for sure. Right? Yes.


Doula Deb (30:04.484)

Yeah. Well, tell me what to do. Just tell me what to do, you know? It's like, hold on. Let's talk this through.


Michelle (30:13.076)

Yeah, for sure, for sure.


Doula Deb (30:15.146)

that's amazing. Well, I think this has been so helpful and I think I hope everybody got some really good things out of this. Was there anything else that you wanted to share about what you're doing right now? Anything coming up?


Michelle (30:32.132)

well, I am starting to teach once a month on the first Thursday of each month, a mindfulness and yoga for the pelvic floor class. Yeah, so that's, so that's on the first Thursday of each month at 11 15 a And just a little, if you're coming for a workout in a yoga practice, this is not the class for you.


Doula Deb (30:42.783)

perfect. That's a great introduction.


Doula Deb (30:58.842)

Which is kind of a relief to me. I would be like, okay, great. Yeah.


Michelle (31:02.173)

Yeah, right. It's more about that piece that we've talked about of connecting with your body, tuning in to the pelvic floor and then supportive postures that help you learn to soften. And I like in a yoga practice to think about, I think you mentioned this, about allowing. There's a quote out there and I can't remember who it's from, I apologize. But she mentions,


Yoga being an invitation, not a command performance. Right? So it's not about postures looking a certain way. It's about feeling the posture and connecting to your body and your breath.


Doula Deb (31:32.826)

you


I love that. I love


Doula Deb (31:45.198)

Yeah. Well, and doing it in a way that is supportive, not hurtful, because I think something in my, that I've learned in my practice, and I love that you say practice because it's always going to be a practice of something. But it's in sports, it's always about pushing yourself and going farther and just going harder and like you're sore. Great. I love that. But yoga is just so different and


Michelle (31:49.901)

Yes. Yeah.


Michelle (31:58.382)

Yes, yes.


Michelle (32:06.116)

Mm


Michelle (32:11.15)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (32:15.232)

that it's really about meeting you where you are and using the support that you need and helping you get stronger but in a way that is from the foundation and core versus just trying to like build on to something that is just like not even there yet.


Michelle (32:27.289)

Yes.


Michelle (32:32.94)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would say the class is very gentle and very appropriate for a new mom who is, maybe you've practiced yoga in the past and you want to kind of ease your way back in, or maybe you've never practiced before at all. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So that's exciting.


Doula Deb (32:34.51)

Yeah, I love that.


Doula Deb (32:50.756)

Yeah, makes it really accessible. Perfect. So, and that's at Madrona Physical Therapy in Tacoma. And I will put all of those links in the show notes so that you can go check that out and sign up. What is the price?


Michelle (32:59.836)

huh.


Michelle (33:06.821)

Yeah. $20. Yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (33:10.394)

Perfect. That's so easy. Very accessible. And are infants okay? Babes in arms.


Michelle (33:17.859)

This is a class just for, no, this one. Yeah, because what I've found is I think you're not able to truly settle in. Like part of the offering is to soothe our nervous system and I think if baby's with, that's hard to do because you're kind of on alert. However, I will say my coworker, Sarah.


Doula Deb (33:22.296)

Yeah, no babes. Just wanted to make sure, yeah.


Doula Deb (33:28.004)

distracting.


Doula Deb (33:42.83)

Yep, you always got that ear open.


Michelle (33:47.781)

is teaching a class on Wednesdays, I believe it's at the same time, 11, 15, every Wednesday, and it's a postpartum circuit training class. And babies and children, babies can come to that one. So, so that's fun. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. So, and


Doula Deb (33:58.372)

fun.


Doula Deb (34:03.236)

that's so fun. That's very cool. Okay. So there's a couple options there. That's amazing. Perfect. Well,


Michelle (34:15.623)

Always the private sessions, I think, are lovely for that more one -on -one approach.


Doula Deb (34:18.125)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (34:23.82)

Yeah. And so are you taking physical therapy clients as well for the pelvic floor therapy? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So I will put your information in the show notes so they can reach out to you if they need some help with being pregnant, getting established, you know, maybe, you know, one thing I was going to ask you, when do you think is a good time to come in postpartum? And we'll say vaginal or


Michelle (34:29.168)

Correct. Yep. Yep. Yep.


Michelle (34:49.318)

Uggghhhh


Doula Deb (34:51.566)

delivery and c -section because I don't know if there's a difference there.


Michelle (34:55.222)

that is such a good question. And I would love to talk more about that with the owner of the clinic, Angie. This is something she feels very passionate about because there seems to be this thing with, with OBs like you need to wait until six weeks. And especially after a cesarean birth, we really think that's too long. Cause there are plenty of things we can talk about.


Doula Deb (35:01.644)

Okay, yeah.


Doula Deb (35:11.673)

Right.


Doula Deb (35:18.714)

Yeah, I agree.


Michelle (35:21.67)

earlier on to develop healthy strategies in your movement, healthy strategies with your breaths, you're not putting more strain on the surgical incision or your pelvic floor. So that is a, that's a kind of a tricky question to answer. I don't have a...


Doula Deb (35:30.894)

Yeah. Yeah.


Doula Deb (35:37.016)

Yeah. Well, and I think, well, and I think what you were saying about it doesn't have to be an internal exam is that there's a lot that you can do in body mechanics and teaching people how to get up out of the bed and lay down, get in and out of the car. I mean, I have a client right now that just had a C -section last week and she's like, it's really hard to get in and out of the car. And I was like, okay, let's talk about how


Michelle (35:43.623)

Yes.


Yeah.


Michelle (35:51.398)

Yes.


Michelle (36:01.937)

Yeah.


Doula Deb (36:03.328)

that looks and how to not injure yourself and also why are you getting in the car? Go to bed. You know? So.


Michelle (36:09.211)

Right? Yeah, yeah. We can also do telemedicine. yeah, so that's an option too. And the owner of the clinic at Madrona is in the process of creating a, I believe it's going to be an October, a Caesarian screening.


Doula Deb (36:16.372)

that's really nice. Okay.


Doula Deb (36:31.254)

I love that. Okay, great.


Michelle (36:33.273)

Yeah, so that if you go to our website, there should be information up about that soon.


Doula Deb (36:40.772)

Amazing. Well, we'll look out for that. Well, it sounds like you guys have so many good things. I do want to get Angie on here as well. So we'll get a lot more information of what she has in works because I know that she is such a great mind of like creating such a supportive environment with several PTs in the clinic who can help you and all the different classes. And you can also find me there. I'm going to start doing it.


Michelle (36:41.733)

Yeah. Awesome.


Yes.


Yeah.


Michelle (36:58.597)

Yes.


Doula Deb (37:09.794)

Ask a doula anything once a week on Wednesdays. So if you guys have questions about sleep and postpartum healing or labor and delivery questions if you're pregnant, anything around that and you just want to ask a quick question, I'll be available on Wednesdays. And so you can check my website for more information about that. And I know Angie's sending that out in newsletters and stuff for starting this month. So that's exciting.


Michelle (37:38.906)

Yay! That's awesome!


Doula Deb (37:41.09)

Yeah, should be fun. So, well, thank you so much for being on and this has been really helpful and I hope it's everybody learn more about your pelvic floor and get the help you need because it's not scary.


Michelle (37:44.36)

Hey.


Michelle (37:57.382)

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for having me.


Doula Deb (38:01.016)

Yeah, all right, well have a good day. Thank you.


Michelle (38:03.43)

All right, you too. Bye bye.


People on this episode

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Doula Deb

Co-host
Contributor

Lindsee McDonald

Co-host
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Michelle Walz, PT, MPT

Guest